Community noticeboard/Archive 2

__NOINDEX__

How can I edit a private page that only users registering with a specific @domain.com email address can view?
Hi community!

Has anyone ever tried to set up a private page that only users logging in with a specific @domain.com email address can view? We have this dilemma in my organisation: there is content we want to make public, and content we want to keep classified. What are the best options? We also thought of creating a xx.public.miraheze.org and a xx.private.miraheze.org page, but we would still face the challenge of privacy for the latter... Lots of hug points to those who'll reply!
 * Welcome! Surely this won't be the last word, but a rule of thumb is that information you want kept secret should not be put on the Web in the first place.  However, pages from private wikis (except for the main page) cannot be retrieved except by registered users that you invite on.  This does not depend on their domain name but on you adding them to a list of members.   15:39 16-Nov-2017
 * There was an extension for only making a few pages private, but unfortunately is incompatible with the newer versions of MediaWiki. So yes, you should probably go for the private wiki and public wiki option. Private wikis are secure, and are only accessible by users who are added. Stewards and system administrators can also view them for technical reasons. Reception123 (talk) ('C' ) 16:54, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
 * With a private wiki you can also whitelist certain pages. MacFan4000 (talk) 17:02, 16 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thank you so much!

How can I limit a search to a specific category of articles?
Is there a way, or an extension I could use, to search for an article in a specific category? CoolieCoolster (talk) 07:31, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
 * You can see how to use Special:Search to limit a search to a certain namespace. I suggest that you search for a page containing both the desired text and "Category:xxx" for the category in question.  Hope that helps!   18:15 23-Nov-2017


 * Franken sorry if victims were offended  18:15 23-Nov-2017

List of CentralAuth testing places
Are there any good places that are non WMF or wmflabs.org that provide free steward access for the purposes of testing centralauth? Thanks --Sau226 (talk) 07:32, 19 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Not that I know of. Providing that level of access is probably not something many would be comfortable with doing. Reception123 (talk) ('C' ) 08:18, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

General wiki questions
Given the nature of my wiki - it's a used car review for cars in the U.S., Australia, Canada, New Zealand - how do I keep within copyright law on image usage for stock photos, and would a site like this be exempt from the inactivity policy?

I want the wiki to succeed, and be of use to someone on here.

Any advice is welcomed. --Walkden1986 (talk) 20:41, 23 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Also, I'm looking to import the CSS and automobile infoboxes from en.wikipedia.org but that requires Lua and I'm not quite sure how to get it working (i'm using Wikipedia templates, for simplicity's sake). --Walkden1986 (talk) 20:43, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Hi, the images you upload should have been released under a free license if you want to use them; wikis are subject under the Dormancy Policy, if you want your wiki to be exempt from this rule, you must make an request here; with respect to the templates, Void will be able to help you better with that. Regards. —Alvaro Molina (✉  - ✔ ) 20:49, 23 November 2017 (UTC)

Change of credentials
Hi community, I'm coming up with another challenge - please bear with me! We need to change the email account through which we registered the Wiki. Couldn't find anything on the FAQ. Any suggestions?
 * It's right in Preferences, first page, Email preferences, click under Change or remove email address. Miraheze will send an email to the old address with a link you click to agree to the change.   11:39 27-Nov-2017

Spike, you're a blessing, and I am fairly retarded. All went smoothly, thanks for that! We cannot change the admin name on the top right corner though, correct?
 * If by "admin name" you mean your username, you can request to change that on Stewards' noticeboard. Please also don't forget to sign your posts using ~ . Reception123 (talk) ('C' ) 05:53, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * @Spike: will do, thanks! Though I am sure I'll do something wrong and I'll just look more retarded. ~Beba

Me too! (1) That last that you are responding to wasn't me! (2) That's why we sign posts, which you tried to do, but putting  around it neatly defeats the replacement of the four-tildes with your name, forcing you to type it in manually. (3) The point of indenting is to set your post off from your neighbor's, not to imitate him, so use a different number of : characters (typically, one more). Cheers! 12:32 PS--Oh, I see you got it right on the Stewards' noticeboard. 12:34 28-Nov-2017

Template with optional parameter
Hello, i'm creating a template and i want to make one line in table optional - when there's no data it doesn't shown. I used example from mediawiki:


 * label1=Text


 * data1=

It works correctly, but when i define a "|text" in article label and data are shown to. Like <<|text=abcde>> and it shows like <> What's wrong and how to show clear "text" without showing label and data? Thanks.
 * Forcing archive. &mdash; revi  10:26, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

Lag time on changes to new wikis
I was just wondering if there are lag times on changes made to new wikis. I have just started a new wiki (created two days ago) but the categories aren't populating and changes made to templates are not showing on the pages where the templates are transcluded. I have to manually purge the cache (not just refresh) to see the changes. Cheers. 17:36, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The categories are populated by a script which runs jobs. Normally, since we now run this jobrunner on two servers, there should not be any issues with it. Please feel free to open a Phabricator task if you see this issue happening frequently. Reception123 (talk) ('C' ) 18:22, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok, if it's still doing it in a couple more days I'll put a phabricator task in. As for the pages not showing the most up-to-date revisions, is this connected to the categories issue? This happened a couple of times on my other wiki but I can't remember if it was something that eventually sorted itself out or not. 19:18, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Ehh, JobQueue has been critical for the past ~20 hours. Most likely your cause. -- Void  Whispers 20:18, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I noticed that the pages I created a few hours ago are showing up in the categories but none of the pages created before then are. I copied 291 glossary entries from my other wiki to the new wiki and all of them should show up in Category:Glossary as they all have category links but only the pages that I create now seem to show up. Strange. 01:10, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Since the pages were imported, they all have to be edited before they are categorized. You don't even have to change any content (just click edit, then immediately save). -- Void  Whispers 01:17, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Oh, ok, thanks. That's going to take a lot of time to complete. That's quite a flaw in their thinking, unless there is a reason to it. 01:51, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Hardly! it's only 291 edits for you to do! (Sarcasm!)  It might not be a flaw in thinking; having processing occur at one point in a page's creation, ignoring that pages are created in other ways, may merely be an oversight.  Void, I wonder about your assertion:  Usually, if I save a page without making any changes, it doesn't even result in a recorded edit in the change history, and thus might not trigger processing in the background.   04:21 30-Nov-2017
 * I prefer it when blank saves are not recorded in the history as I don't see the point of recording no change. I've done blank saves before on my other wiki but I didn't realise you had to do the same thing for imported pages to make them show up in categories. They certainly trigger processing because the few blanks I have done already are making those pages appear in the glossary category. Bored of that job already and I've only done 25 pages so far. Could really do with a bot for this type of work! 11:55, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Anyone know how to use the #if parser function?
I am asking for a little help in trying to understand parser functions that allow for missing parameters to hide elements in an infobox. I have used inboxes on thelonsdalebattalion wiki, imported from Wikipedia. To be quite frank, I find them a total headache and unnecessarily over-complicated, with far too many other template and modules to make them work properly. I have managed to get them mostly working, with the exception of coordinates, which is just a nightmare to sort out. So, I'm having a rest from those inboxes and I'm going to go back to what I'm more comfortable with and create my own basic infoboxes. The problems is I don't know how parser functions work. What I would like (if possible) is some example wikitext that shows the #if parser function where the desired output is if a parameter is left empty, it won't be displayed. I will come up with a basic infobox and then I am happy for someone with parser function knowledge to have a re-write of the template. If I can see the wikitext I will be able to replicate it for future infoboxes that doesn't involve me wasting time trying to get all elements of Wikipedia infoboxes to work. As always, thanks in advance. 01:32, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Basic premise is that  displays anything nested with the word "present" if the param is included anywhere. Otherwise, "absent" is displayed. If I was to call that template, but only do something like , the result is "absent". If I call  , the result is "present". Also, it's very important that you setup "param" using  , as otherwise (such as using  ), you will get "present" even when calling  . --  Void  Whispers 01:45, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for speedy response. I kind of get it but I need to see it in the template, which I have just created here: Template:Infobox book A work in progress. Can you access the thegreatwar wiki, it is set to private at the moment? I am happy for you to tinker with it if necessary. Also, don't laugh too much at my basic template-making skills. If you spot some errors please let me know. I'll pick up any responses after I've had some sleep! Cheers. 02:16, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * It might not be necessary to use  at all.  The code   stands for the first parameter, and   means patch in "foo" if the first parameter is omitted.  All you might have to do is provide nothing between the vertical bar and the closing curly braces.  This alone ensures that "if a parameter is left empty, it won't be displayed."
 * One problem with these is that you are editing the template, but can only see it work once invoked by a different page, and there are several places for your edits not to get passed along, including Miraheze's cache (which you can purge) and your browser's cache (ditto).  03:33 1-Dec-2017
 * I must be doing something wrong because I can't get it to work. Currently I have the following for the author parameter:
 * ← this is still visible when below parameter is empty ← when empty nothing shows here but I need both this (the data) and the above (label) to disappear when the data field is empty.
 * On the transcluded page where I am using the template: if I use  and I leave it blank after the = sign, then yes, that element is empty but I want the whole row to disappear (data and label) and it isn't doing that, so what am I missing?  13:29, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

(Reset indent) on my phone so forgive fuckups but try something like    both instances of  must have the same parameter name and must both include the pipe character. If the param is not empty it will display nothing, if the parameter is anything it will add the template and the parameter. -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 14:02, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Not wanting to sound stupid (maybe too late for that) but what and how much  am I putting in this tag? I've just added the template to public testwiki if anyone wants to have a go at making it work.  14:42, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Slow down and think carefully; the  must surround everything that you might want to disappear; that is, the entire table entry, from one   line up to but not including the next one.  And I see a parameter "editor" versus "editors" versus "s".   15:08 1-Dec-2017
 * This is why I need to see how it is supposed to look by someone who knows what they are doing rather than trying to figure it out badly for myself. The bit of editor text is straight from wikipedia, just wanted to see what it did but apparently nothing. And now user Artix Kreiger has protected the template page. I can't even edit it now! 15:24, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I couldn't either, and that's why I didn't. I'll play with it at The Mirror.  God help you if you try to follow a recipe in the kitchen!   15:39 1-Dec-2017
 * I have jumped in and the first complication is that we are using a template to generate code to reside inside a template. This means there is confusion between the vertical bars that separate parameters of   and the vertical bars we are trying to generate:  They need to be escaped, and I don't know if I'm doing it right.   15:48 1-Dec-2017


 * All right, look at what I've done to the "editor" entry at themirror.miraheze.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_book and apply comparable changes throughout. Please do not try to write code to pluralize "editor"; instead, create another parallel entry, "editors", if there are more than one and you really want the "s" on the end.  NDKilla did not solve the hard problem by finessing "code for template" because when that code wants to output a vertical bar, we have to code it as  .   15:55 1-Dec-2017
 * I think I'm understanding what you've done. I've just tried in on Public Testwiki (that user has kindly allowed me to edit my own template!) and it works nicely. I just need to apply that to all the other parameters. Thanks for that, appreciate your time and help in sorting it out. I wouldn't have figured that out on my own. Thanks for everyone's suggestions. 16:41, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * FYI, if you do it like this, the parameters will not show by default. -- Void  Whispers 21:19, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't understand this (but I didn't understand your comment above, either). If the caller does not provide "param", then our use of   removes the entire line of the graphic.  You added a vertical bar that says to use a null string in the parameter's absence; but the parameter's absence is already covered.  Is there some tri-state logic here?   22:26 1-Dec-2017
 * That would only be true if the caller still does something like param but never passes on a value. If param is never provided it defaults to being present as unless you define a default value (in this case null) in the template. In other words, if we have a template that is entirely , and we call  , it will display  . This value still counts as present in the  parser function. --  Void  Whispers 23:26, 1 December 2017 (UTC)
 * So Borderman has a stylistic choice between omitting the row of the graphic, or having the row be included but have a blank on the right side. "If [it] is never provided it defaults to being present" seems perverse, as provided and present seem virtually synonymous; but yes, there are indeed three possibilities here.  Thanks.   00:25 2-Dec-2017

How do I allow someone to be an administrator on my wiki?
Hello, I created a wiki at https://talkingtomandfriends.miraheze.org. It is still up and coming. When new editors come to it, I might have to make some of them administrators/bureaucrats. But how will I allow them to delete or protect pages? Zkhanr123 (talk) 10:57, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
 * You can go to Special:UserRights. Reception123 (talk) ('C' ) 09:15, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks,Reception123. It'll be of a lot of use when my wiki gets viewed by someone other than my relatives. Zkhanr123 (talk) 10:57, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
 * To be clear, making someone an administrator does confer the ability to delete and protect pages. Bureaucrats usually are also admins and can do so too.   15:12 9-Dec-2017
 * Well, bureaucrats don't have the right per se, it's just because the vast majority of bureaucrats are also sysops/administrators. Reception123 (talk) ('C' ) 16:43, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Add a what links here to various pages on meta
I'd like to have the what links here added to various pages of meta.

I posted an example on my user space:

https://meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:Rsterbal/Code_of_Conduct

thanks! Rsterbal (talk) 04:33, 16 December 2017 (UTC)
 * You don't state why this is necessary.
 * You can see it by clicking "" in the sidebar, why do we need to transclude it? &mdash; revi  07:11, 16 December 2017 (UTC)


 * No, least of all, to create a separate section containing nothing but back-links. Some of these are passing references or lists of pages, and not of value to the reader of the current page.  If reading a policy page inherently puts questions in the reader's mind that could be answered on other pages, a See also section, like Wikipedia, might be appropriate, though in-line wikilinks are still better.   13:17 16-Dec-2017

Miraheze Finance Graphs
I made some graphs to visualize Miraheze's finances from August 2015 to November 2017:


 * File:Miraheze Finance Graph.png
 * File:Miraheze Finance Graph by Month.png
 * File:Miraheze Balance Change by Month.png
 * File:Miraheze Income by Month.png
 * File:Miraheze Expenses by Month.png
 * File:Miraheze Hosting Costs by Month.png

CoolieCoolster (talk) 04:24, 18 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Good idea! I think the graphs are a good way to better vizualize our finances. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 15:10, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

Navigation Popup available on Meta


The navigation popup available in enwiki is now also available in miraheze meta. Enable it from Special:Preferences's Gadget section. If you ever want to use it on your wiki, copy&paste MediaWiki:Gadget-popups.js, MediaWiki:Gadget-popups.css, MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition, and MediaWiki:Gadget-Navigation popups. By enabling this gadget, your User-Agent and the referrer will be known to the Wikimedia Foundation, and that information will be handled under the rule of WMF Privacy Policy. That's because the gadget loads CSS and JS from English Wikipedia, site controlled by WMF. (I intentionally did this because this way Miraheze local sysops don't have to take care of code maintenance.) &mdash; revi</tt>  12:58, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

What happened to the multimedia viewer?
Is the MultimediaViewer extension not compatible with the latest version of Mediwiki? I find it quite a useful tool for viewing galleries. 22:18, 21 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Are you getting any errors? Is it not working as intended? Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 06:45, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I checked the following day and it was working again. There were no errors it just wasn't there. But it's fine now, not sure why it did that. Sorry, my bad, I should have updated here. Thanks for asking. 08:15, 23 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Ok, great then. If you experience anymore issues with it please tell me so that I can take a look. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 08:16, 23 December 2017 (UTC)

In The Mirror
I see there is a second Admin on my wiki, https://TheMirror.miraheze.org - to-wit, AbuseFilter. While I appreciate having access to an abuse filter, the associated user was an oddity on Uncyclopedia, as the abuse filter itself is a robot, while User:AbuseFilter is nobody. The only good thing I can say about it is that the WMF report now shows 2 active users rather than -1. This Admin was a recent addition; what is the strategy? Why did it happen? Is someone else now a fellow Admin on my wiki?

On Uncyclopedia, the best use for an abuse filter was to warn people who deposit links to external websites. This behavior is usually an attempt to use the wiki to advertise. The 'bots that do so do not persist, though a couple of humans who really wanted to give other users a reading list took great personal offense.

The satire news was an exception, as a link to a real news article is usually necessary to put the satire in perspective. As that is what I'm doing here, I don't currently need to define any filters.

Separately (and if this is the wrong place to discuss it, please advise), "community" implies collaboration, and I throw myself on the mercy of any Photoshop-adept Mirahezian who can contribute an illustration to "The Mirror" - something newsy, such as involving jihadis in masks or protest signs, as though seen through the rear-view mirror of a car. I would use it in the masthead at The Mirror, or as the wiki's avatar. 00:17 28-Dec-2017
 * I also noticed that AbuseFilter was automatically added as an Admin on my wiki, and the number of active users is no longer -1 as well. CoolieCoolster (talk) 14:27, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * That account is part of Extension AbuseFilter, that blocks user when user meets certain filter (local, or global) that is configured to block anyone meeting the filter condition. It is not a human account. &mdash; revi</tt>  08:40, 29 December 2017 (UTC)
 * There are one private global filter that blocks the user when the condition is satisfied. I can’t talk about the details, though, for the sake of security and nature of the filter. &mdash; revi</tt>  08:44, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

Comments (description) expectations in request form
I made an attempt at requesting a wiki setup which was denied for "Invalid description." However, on the request page there is no indication of requirements for a description or even a description field. The field "Comments" does not at first blush appear likely to be a field for a required description of a requested wiki, and the history of approvals doesn't give much in the way of guidance regarding expectations. I understand that a volunteer community will have some drift with respect to expectations, but a clearer description of what is expected on the request page might help avoid confusion and frustration. Just a thought in case anyone else has noticed the high proportion of declines noting "invalid description" as the Comment (it seems to be by far the most common reason given for declines - although already exists crops up fairly often, as well).Boomerang (talk) 19:05, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

space before signature
I have the unfortunate habit of placing my signature immediately after the end of my messages, which often leads to the signature text/name appearing with no spaces before it. Does anyone know if there is a way to edit the automatic signature (Boomerang (talk) 19:12, 28 December 2017 (UTC)) to include a preliminary space?Boomerang (talk) 19:12, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * See what I mean (?Boomerang...) :-P Boomerang (talk) 19:13, 28 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Nevermind - finally found the "Preferences" page...&#32;Boomerang (talk) 19:15, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Help needed with main page/portal layout
On my wiki, I originally formatted the boxes of information on the main page like Wikipedia. I thought that it looked outdated, so I have been looking for a style that looks more modern. I am currently using the style of The Lonsdale Battalion for the main page and portals of my wiki, however for some reason the boxes are not aligned with each other properly. If anyone knows how to fix this issue, or another main page style that would fix this issue, please let me know. CoolieCoolster (talk) 05:10, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Link, please.  05:34 1-Jan-2018
 * Here is the main page of the wiki, and the five current portals are on the right on the main page. The main page and all of the portals have boxes that are not aligned correctly at the bottom of the screen. I tried to align them as well as I could by adding spaces to the templates that fill each of the boxes, however different screen sizes or changing the size of the window on a computer can cause the boxes to desync, and even normally the boxes are not perfectly aligned. CoolieCoolster (talk) 05:43, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Got it. Hard-coding measurements is never the right way to go.  You have coded a "wikitable," which will produce a rigid grid of rows and columns, if you simply decline to dictate the width of each.  Let me play with it, and you can revert if you like.   05:48 1-Jan-2018
 * I take it back; the only possible defect I see is that the 80% column and the 20% column have different vertical sizes. 05:55  And that is because, inside your wikitable, you have encapsulated content that takes up different amounts of space.  The 20% column looks awful if I disable images, because in their place I get the name of the illustration, and the names have vastly different lengths.  Re-enabling images and they look tidy, as each image is the same size.   06:02 1-Jan-2018
 * Recommendation: Why is "Main Page/Frame" named as though it is a subpage of "Main Page"? In fact, it isn't; it is in a separate namespace entirely (the Template namespace).  I made one other (centering) edit that you may or may not like.  Will discuss it more tomorrow, bedtime.   06:08 1-Jan-2018


 * It's tomorrow. My only additional thought is that your left section and the right section are never going to line up.  The right section is shorter now because there are only 5 items, but surely the goal is to have so many items that the right section becomes the longer one.  Likewise on https://TheMirror.miraheze.org, I have a DPL list of recent articles, and other housekeeping, on the right; and graphic layouts of 5-8 featured articles on the left.  They never line up either.  Does that look ugly to you?  If not, the only reason is that I haven't drawn a border around each section that would give the impression that they should line up.   14:21 1-Jan-2018
 * I guess it doesn't really matter if the boxes line up or not. I think I will just solve the problem by adding more content to the main page and portals once there are more articles on my wiki. CoolieCoolster (talk) 14:34, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Request Wikicreator
After discussions in the IRC, I would like to request the necessary permissions to begin volunteering as a Wikicreator. Enfaru (talk) 16:43, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
 * more wikicreators is always good. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 16:53, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me but I can't grant it, as I don't have UserRights. ? &mdash; revi</tt>  19:34, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
 * ✅ -- Void  Whispers 19:36, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Miraheze Wikistats
It seems like 250 wikis are missing from the wikistats for Miraheze. CoolieCoolster (talk) 13:55, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * It is maintained by people outside Miraheze sysadmin (Not sure about status of Miraheze in the wikistats.labs), and they (iirc) need to manually pull the data. We have no control over when they pull the data from us. &mdash; revi</tt>  15:15, 5 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, they seem to update daily but their list of what to update is updated nearly never. My second wiki (https://rfobasic.miraheze.org) they have not figured out is there.  And even on https://themirror.miraheze.org, their number of edits (614) suggests their data are a couple days out of date, as I am up to 625.  On the other hand, closed/dormant wikis and those with 0 edits don't deserve a ranking.  Baffling but of low importance to me.   17:58 5-Jan-2018

New wiki suggestions idea
I was thinking about other wikis I could create, however most of them would be too much work for one person to create alone. Maybe there could be a noticeboard or something on Miraheze meta for people to post their ideas for new wikis so that way if two people are interested in the same idea, they can work together, instead of one person working on their new wiki and eventually getting bored and quitting. CoolieCoolster (talk) 16:28, 6 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Right here would seem to be the correct place. We don't need a new institution when we have "Community noticeboard," though we don't seem to have a Community; there was no response at all to my request for Photoshop help, which will soon be removed to the archive.  Sadly (or not), most users are here to create the content they desire, not the content you desire.  If you create the content you desire, the way to get collaborators is to advertise; but I bet most wiki editors would not want broadcasts about what you have done.  Subtle ads about what I have done have been removed from this page.  I have looked in on your list of wikis to create, but we don't have the same interests, so I just suggest that you not start something where you would eventually "get bored and quit."   17:16 6-Jan-2018

Navbox show/hide buttons not functioning properly
I was wondering if I could appeal to someone's knowledge regarding the show/hide buttons on the Navbox template. I don't know if anyone else uses it but I'm going to throw this out "out there" in the hope that someone can shed some light on it. Whenever i create a new page with the navbox, or edit and save an existing page with a navbox, the show/hide buttons appear (most of the time). However, when I refresh the page the buttons disappear, for which reason I have no idea. If I follow a link from a page with a navbox and follow a link back to it the buttons have disappeared. And then sometimes they just appear. Does anyone know why this odd behaviour is happening? As far as I know I have included all the relevant templates and modules associated with it. Currently I have The Great War wiki set to private so I am guessing only admins etc. can access to have a look. Any help, as always, most appreciated. Thanks. 11:53, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I can't explain why the buttons should disappear entirely. I did work with an Infobox once where the author chose a color that was identical to the links, but this made them disappear entirely all the time.  You're aware that Infoboxes require special JavaScript to work?  (See FAQ)  I don't believe that Infoboxes use cookies or any other way of maintaining internal state, so they would not retain their show/hide status if you reloaded or refreshed the page.


 * The first step in diagnosis would be to point the cursor to where the buttons should be and see if it changes form, indicating that there is a link to be clicked on but you simply can't see it. At that point, Firefox Object Inspector could point out the link and even show you the style rules responsible for rendering it invisible.   12:48 12-Jan-2018
 * I have worked with both infoboxes and navboxes before and most of the time I find they have been built too over-complicated, so I sometimes use my own (basic) infoboxes. The navbox has been copied from Wikipedia and for all intents and purposes it works. The show/hide buttons work but only after the initial page save. So, whatever is driving the buttons to show works to a degree. After that it gets sketchy. They are the standard blue link colour and hovering the mouse over the area does nothing - there is nothing there so the mouse can't respond to any action. As far as I can tell I have all the relevant code in the Commons.js page as well, so for now it's a bit of a mystery. Sometimes they show but most of the time they don't. 13:34, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Just as I thought, it's a scripting error related to unloaded dependencies. I've resolved the issue on both The Great War wiki and The Lonsdale Battalion wiki by ensuring that all dependencies used by MediaWiki:Common.js are loaded before anything attempts to use them. -- Void  Whispers 21:49, 12 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the fix, all working properly now. I never would have worked that out. Cheers pal. 22:53, 12 January 2018 (UTC)

Problems with wiki on mobiles
The problem is, that my Wiki at https://fuchsia.miraheze.org/wiki/Main_Page works not with mobile browsers. On desktop browsers it works fine. You can see and read there all. But if anyone wants to see it with an smartphone (for example with Android), then only the topics are shown. If you don't have an Android smartphone, you can test it also online on https://www.browserling.com/
 * What do you mean by "only the topics are shown"? Would it be possible to maybe provide a screenshot? Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 12:17, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Section headers never seem to work on mobile for the main page. We may want to add that to the FAQ, because this is at least the fifth time this has been reported. On regular pages, the display should be fine (if you're not seeing anything, simply tap on the section headers). But on the main page, the content below headers can never be made to display without some meddling. The easiest fix is probably to remove section headers from the main page. -- Void  Whispers 17:03, 13 January 2018 (UTC)
 * My guess was headers too. We do need to do something about this issue, which is very likely something to do with the MobileFrontend extension. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 18:26, 13 January 2018 (UTC)

Navigation popups
I noticed added the navigation popups to Meta and thought I'd try them out on my second wiki. All seems to be good so far. I was wondering how you stylise it so it looks more like the Wikipedia one with a simpler look. 18:00, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Miraheze meta one just uses English Wikipedia code, so it should be identical. (Your ping doesn’t work.) &mdash; revi</tt>  18:55, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
 * It looks quite a bit different, maybe the "Page preview" link (at the very bottom of Wikipedia next to "mobile view") links to a different type of popup. I did notice the css for it is called MediaWiki:Gadget-navpop.css on Wikipedia but on Meta is is MediaWiki:Gadget-popups.css. Does this make a difference? 19:30, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Regarding "look[ing] different", CSS (Cascading Style Sheets) governs how page elements look, so yes, having different CSS has unlimited ability to make elements look different. If you point to the relevant CSS on your site and describe how you want it to look, I'll advise.   19:33 14-Jan-2018
 * My point here is that if Meta is using the same css code as Wikipedia and I am using the code from Meta, my popups should look the same as they do on Wikipedia, but they don't. So, I am wondering if they are the same popups at all. I am happy to experiment with css, I was just hoping to save some time as my Great War project is already very time-consuming. 22:06, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The Firefox Web Console can show you, when you reload a page, what files your browser is requesting, and thus what .CSS files are controlling display of the page. The Object Inspector (display the pop-up and right-click on it) can tell you what the specific styles are, and let you un-tick each one).  Also, look for comments in the .CSS file.  Code for a pop-up will have an HTML tag including it in a class of object (such as  name...) and the .CSS file will have a range applying to objects of that class (such as  name  display attributes .   23:16 14-Jan-2018
 * That screenshot is not Navigation Popup. That is likely Page Previews. It is not installed on Meta. &mdash; revi</tt>  09:32, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * That will be why they look so different, thanks for spotting that. As the extension is in beta release at the moment, would I have to wait for it to be a stable release before Miraheze considers installing it for users? 12:04, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Extension is deployed on Wikimedia Foundation wikis, so it does not require any additional step. Request at Phabricator as usual, thanks! &mdash; revi</tt>  12:06, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Miraheze on MediaWiki.org
I was searching for "independent third-party" references to Miraheze, stumbled on our description at MediaWiki, and made some corrections to the article's Intro. 05:10 15-Jan-2018
 * I noticed, thanks :) Only of course, Wikipedia doesn't treat MediaWiki.org as a "reliable" source. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 05:42, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

Yes, and my edit doesn't change that. They didn't list us because they found us notable but because we use their product. I found nothing else in the first two pages of a DuckDuckGo search that isn't from one of our wikis, except a page on Wikiversity that is a clone of the Draft that is not being let into Wikipedia. 13:43 15-Jan-2018

Breadcrumbs for Main namespace
I've started using quite a few subpages on thegreatwar wiki and noticed that there doesn't seem to be any breadcrumbs for Main namespace subpages. Is there an admin setting that turns these on for individual sites or is extension-based? No mention of it in Extensions so hoping it is a simple matter or something I have overlooked. Thanks. 02:35, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it's pretty simple. For some reason the default settings for wgNamespacesWithSubpages does not include the main namespace. Therefore pages are not treated as subpages and do not have breadcrumbs. It's easy enough to fix with a quick visit to phab. -- Void  Whispers 04:37, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks. I have put a request in. 17:17, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

Parser functions...again. Help needed to understand them.
As mentioned in a previous posting I am going to have to use parser functions again but this time to remove whole row/s in a table (with a colspan of 25) if those rows are empty, not just have empty cells in the table. Before I go any further, is this even possible? Because if not I'm going to have figure something else out. If it is possible, them I am going to need a little re-educating on the subject and both and  helped a lot last time. If it is doable I will explain further after confirmation. Thanks. 17:27, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Parser functions can keep stuff from being generated, provided that you are able to describe it at page-generation time. Removing entire rows that you have already generated would have to be done by (gasp!) JavaScript.  Pointer and details, please?   17:40 17-Jan-2018


 * PS--Colspan is 25? Are you saying you want to remove the row of a table that constitutes a sub-heading, in the case that it is a subheading of nothing?  This suggests JavaScript would be required.  To simply remove rows of data, in the case that there are no data, imagine a template, called repeatedly, that generates one row of the table.  Parser functions would easily inspect the data and, if null, output the null string rather than a row of empty columns.   17:46 17-Jan-2018
 * I would like to be able to remove entire rows (plural) if need be, not the data inside the cells (because in some cases there won't be any and the cells will be blank) but to remove the actual rows themselves. To break it down, I am transcribing an old book which has 640 pages. I have created a table with space for 700 pages (so I can use the same template for other transcriptions of a similar length). However, I don't want the last two rows to be visible - there's no point in having so many empty cells visible. Each row consists of a colspan of 25. I chose this number because it's easy to work with in sections on large tables. So there will be at least 50 cells over two rows that I would like to remove on the transcluded page. Other projects might require further rows to be removed. This is what I am after and I have a feeling it might be too much work to implement. 18:21, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Currently, the thegreatwar wiki is set to private but I have changed permissions for you so you should be able to access the site. Let me know if you can't. I'll point you to the corresponding template and transcluded page where the template is still being built....slowly. 18:24, 17 January 2018 (UTC)

A question about extensions
I am having an extension created for Podpedia that I don't want to publish to MediaWiki. Will it be possible to add it to Podpedia without first publishing it to MediaWiki once the extension is complete? CoolieCoolster (talk) 22:40, 20 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The extension will have to be open-source and published on GitHub for us to be able to add it to our current list. You don't need to list it on MediaWiki.org if you don't want to. It will also naturally have to pass a security review, like all other extensions. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 06:29, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

P.S.: I also moved this to Community noticeboard as Stewards have nothing to do with extensions. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 06:29, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I only want Podpedia to be able to use it, so could is there a way to publish it on GitHub where it is only viewable by people who have a link to it? CoolieCoolster (talk) 13:37, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Or is there a way to disable downloads of it for most people? CoolieCoolster (talk) 13:39, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Details? What effect do you want to achieve?  Is there another way to achieve it without importing mysterious code?   14:27 21-Jan-2018
 * Extensions are added a submodule to the MediaWiki repository on GitHub. Anyone would be able to view the source code just by opening the submodule. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 15:18, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The extension will make it very easy for anyone to create a podcast wiki, so if anyone can use it on their own websites, they have no reason to use Podpedia. That is why I want to make sure only Podpedia has access to the extension. CoolieCoolster (talk) 15:22, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Coolie, it is a good idea to make Podpedia a directory of podcast wikis, but you should achieve that by continuing to persuade other users, not by working to give it tools unavailable to others unless they play ball with you.  15:47 21-Jan-2018
 * I'm paying for an extension, so shouldn't I be able to have exclusive access to it? CoolieCoolster (talk) 15:53, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I am not an expert on what your rights are on Miraheze. You might not be able to upload porn to certain wikis, nor store weapons in your apartment, even if they are unquestionably yours.  But it would be better to proceed as a collaborator and not a monopolist.   16:35 21-Jan-2018
 * Collaboration is exactly what I do want! Having such an extension available to anyone simply encourages people to set up their own websites instead of collaborating on one website together. Is it not better to have one wiki with ten people than ten wikis with one person each? CoolieCoolster (talk) 16:49, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * This is a tough situation. As MacFan mentioned above, we use extensions by adding them to our MediaWiki repo as submodules. Therefore, your extension would have to be open-source in order to be added, or else anyone would have access to it anyway. I'm not sure what elements you're thinking of that would require to be private, and not open sourced? Anyway, unless someone has experience, it wouldn't be that easy to get to the source code, and understand what it does. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 17:32, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Alright. CoolieCoolster (talk) 18:10, 21 January 2018 (UTC)
 * At least, (while this is my personal opinion) the source code of extensions should be compatble with MediaWiki's license, GNU General Public License v.2 or later. &mdash; revi</tt>  09:44, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

Stats and analytics
I want to collect traffic stats on my wiki. I saw the page saying it was a work in progress involving Piwik. But I was wondering if there is a short-term fix: can I use Google Analytics or FireStats or something similar? Abundance (talk) 01:19, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I think I remember someone saying that Google Analytics was disallowed for privacy reasons. CoolieCoolster (talk) 12:00, 24 January 2018 (UTC)
 * ^ is correct. We do not allow Google Analytics because it connects to 3rd party and provide potentially personally identifying informations, (then use it for ads). &mdash; revi</tt>  12:12, 24 January 2018 (UTC)

Is this a game changer for Wikiversity/Miraheze?
Let me be bold and suggest that this development on Wikiversity has important implications for Miraheze. My contention is that in many ways Miraheze is configured the way Wikiversity and Wikibooks should have been configured. While the Great Wikipedia has dominated Google searches, and deserves its primary spot, something is missing. And that "something" is diversity. There needs to be more than one wiki article per subject. Wikiversity and Wikibooks were attempts to fix that problem. Both failed because they lacked the ability to partition diverse points of view. An article was either on Wikiversity or off Wikiversity. If it was on, it was muddled with all the other efforts from the perspective of a Google search. Miraheze realized that the various "viewpoints" of human thought needed to be placed on separate wikis so that Google could treat them differently.

The extermal link above refers to Wikiversity's decision to create a Draft space that apparently hides all its pages from Google. I don't know the details, but try to find "Wikipedia Draft:Miraheze" using Google. This page on Miraheze is invisible to Google. So is that page. The format of "this" and "that" represent the two extremes Wikiversity might use to display Wikiversity's low quality articles in Draft space. But, while "Draft" space seems to be invisible to Google, all of the Miraheze wikis are independent, and (I hope) will be treated differently by Google.

Miraheze has wisely chosen not to be the judge of a wiki; not to distinguish between the sublime and the ridiculous (that is Google's job.) If this decision to create a Draft space on Wikiversity goes as I hope, then the authors of low quality Wikiversity articles will be faced  with a delima:  either (1) stay on Wikiversity in draft space and be "invisible" to Google, or  (2) put their crap on Miraheze.

But Miraheze should not be offended by this because Miraheze can also host our best work. Miraheze can host the coordination of educational private student wikis wright.miraheze, as well as private collaboration by scholars on wikis like wikiversity.miraheze. The significant feature of both links is not their quality, but the prospect that others will use Miraheze in the same fashion. At least that is my hope and my dream. --Guy vandegrift (talk) 01:12, 16 January 2018 (UTC)


 * COMMENT: For evidence that Draft space is invisible to Google, see this screencapture of a Google search for (Wikipedia Miraheze). It is possible that enough attempts to find the page in Wikipedia draftspace will "train" Google to find it.  But at the time of writing, Google did not know about wikipedia:Draft:Miraheze.--Guy vandegrift (talk) 01:13, 16 January 2018 (UTC)


 * It is not surprising that Google can't or won't find the Wikipedia Draft namespace, as it is formally not a part of Wikipedia. Google could do its job better if its searches extended to Drafts; also if it knew MediaWiki and combed through the history so you could search for something that used to be on a page.  But it doesn't, I guess.  If that's the case, then being consigned to Draft space is comparable to getting your page deleted, in terms of search hits.  Sure, Miraheze remains an option for those treated badly elsewhere.  But moving to Miraheze won't, by itself, result in your page getting read.
 * Separately, I reject the false dichotomy above, as https://TheMirror.miraheze.org is both sublime and ridiculous.  04:55 16-Jan-2018
 * The issue is, it still would be hard for users on Wikiversity to find out about Miraheze. So unless someone makes a proposal that says if they need a place to write their articles, etc. they can use Miraheze, I'm not sure many users will find it. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 06:20, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree that the obscurity of Mirhaheze is a major impediment to my proposal. Apparently that will take time to fix.  I hope you folks stay healthy in the meantime. One thing is certain, as I see it:  We need the kind of diversity that Miraheze is trying to offer. Top-down organizations like the WMF can't handle too much diversity, not because they are rigid or closed minded, but because the way their wikis are configured.--Guy vandegrift (talk) 13:48, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * We are back to the chicken-and-egg problem on view at any American baseball stadium: You don't draw fans until there is word of mouth, nor signs on the outfield wall, to pay for the word of mouth, until there are fans to view them.  Again, the usual solution is to pay to advertise the institution, but that is money on a much larger scale than we are used to, plus dealing with specialists in false claims, plus no guarantees of good results.
 * By the way, Guy, the lesson I take from your pointers to Wikiversity — that they too are creating a Draft namespace — suggests that, in the long term, their rulemongers will want to harmonize their Draft policy with that of Wikipedia, and their article on Miraheze (which again, is a copy of an old draft from Wikipedia) will be moved to Draft too, one more reference site where, officially, we are not mentioned.  14:24 16-Jan-2018
 * As one of the rulemongers I can assure you that the Miraheze article will stay out of draft space. But there was a Volleyball site that didn't bother me on Wikiversity, but some of the others thought it was not sufficiently academic for Wikiversity.  Simply by writing policy guidelines that  direct authors to Miraheze would bring in business.  Also, I would pin more of my hopes on seeing the Wikiversity WikiJournals thrive, because that would encourage people to compose their work in wikitext, often on Miraheze where they can work free from prying eyes.  --Guy vandegrift (talk) 22:17, 16 January 2018 (UTC)
 * In that case, Wikiversity may want to grab the updated text from the Wikipedia draft.  22:47 16-Jan-2018
 * Goo idea, Miraheze could use a makeover.--Guy vandegrift (talk) 04:24, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * PS: WMF config is explicitly telling search engines 'not to crawl' Draft: and Draft_talk: namespaces. It cannot be changed by using . Thank spammers and SEO people for it. &mdash;  revi</tt>  11:43, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Here is why this might be a game-changer for Miraheze: Look at the bottom of this permalink: wikiversity:special:permalink/1806926--Guy vandegrift (talk) 17:47, 17 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I told Coolie Coolster his recent efforts to aggregate podcast websites at his Podpedia likewise make us more of a go-to site than individual efforts would. Synergy.   19:12 18-Jan-2018

Bordering the ridiculous
Having read this I can see why the draft submission was declined but at the same time it's just another kick in the teeth for minorities wanting to get information published on the Holy Grail that it Wikipedia. To be honest I hadn't done a search for Miraheze on Wikipedia but to have a draft declined simply because there isn't enough public visibility of the subject that can be readily verified is bordering the ridiculous. Again, I understand the need for visibility and for sources, but conversely, what about the multitude of pitifully small (one short sentence or so), non-referenced articles that have made it through the submission process. I am sure some of the really obscure subjects that do crop up as an official article have little-to-no immediately verifiable sources, otherwise someone would have included them. So, what separates those crappy little articles from the Miraheze draft? I like Wikipedia but at the same time I find it extremely overburdened with policies, guidelines and conventions and quite frankly many of the users are full of infallibility and self importance.

But I digress. I think the Miraheze draft certainly has issues and could be improved. If staff and members want to get Miraheze "out there" more the issues in the draft need to be addressed otherwise it will never be accepted. Spreading the word seems to be key here and how that is done is limited only by imagination. I was once interviewed on radio once for an old website of mine (which is now the current version of my Lonsdale Battalion site) as a radio boss found a poster in a local library and thought it interesting to speak to me about it. I chatted on forums as well and word got out. But I am sure collectively between the community there are many other ways Miraheze can be published in solid, verifiable sources that can be used to strengthen it's visibility in the world.

All regular users who actually have a workable website could also write a piece about it in the project page space and link back here. It would be a shame for everyone who has worked hard over the last two or three years in getting Miraheze into a well-oiled machine only to have it hindered by lack of global visibility other than its community of websites. 02:10, 19 January 2018 (UTC)


 * As far as visibility is concerned, advertising Miraheze might help. I noticed that Google has an offer that they sometimes give to people that if you spend $25 you can get another $100 in advertising credit. If four people each spend $25, that would be $600 in advertising value for Miraheze. CoolieCoolster (talk) 03:24, 19 January 2018 (UTC)


 * It isn't ridiculous, it is their rules, meant to resist vanity articles. And Borderman's main argument is essentially two-wrongs-make-a-right.  In fact, in my experience, I have run into tons of rulebook lawyers, most recently when one of those charming people who go around slapping templates on articles for other people to do work hit my Violation (basketball), which does nothing more than guide the reader to other articles, but he had several rules that allegedly proved it needed footnotes, and which I did not care to read.


 * Borderman, please follow the links to our previous discussions on this, one of which is archived. There is a difference between notable wikis being hosted on Miraheze, and Miraheze being notable.  To repeat an analogy I gave Reception123 by email last week:  Someone posts something on a bulletin board at Walmart, and the press carries a photo of that thing, by which you can tell it was at a Walmart.  That doesn't necessarily say anything about Walmart nor necessarily make Walmart notable.


 * Assuming our wikis became notable, I think a sentence in the Intro that said, "Miraheze is the site that hosts wikis such as Lonsdale Battalion (wiki), The Great War (wiki), and The Mirror (wiki)." would go a long way toward convincing the reader he wasn't merely reading a vanity article. But it would make no headway against the notability rule.   03:55 19-Jan-2018


 * PS--Regarding "write a piece about your wiki," we have Gazetteer of wikis, though I have tried to ensure that people merely write one line about their wikis. One thing Uncyclopedia does to encourage community, cross-pollination, and awareness about what's been written, is "feature" an article on the main page; formerly, one a day but lately less than one a week and sometimes poring through the archives.  They use a voting process, which has been a huge magnet for drama; during the years when you could not nominate your own article, it also led to cliques.


 * Surely the Stewards are aware of what is being done throughout Miraheze; if such an additional use of the Meta Main Page appeals to them, they should periodically grab a copy of part or all of an attractive page on one of the wikis, pointing the reader there to finish the page.  04:04 19-Jan-2018


 * PPS--Related: Trump snubs The Mirror on Fake News awards   04:32 19-Jan-2018

Another effort to "advertise" for a Miraheze-Wikiversity connection
I am uploading OpenStax slide presentations to Wikiversity and calling for collaborators in an effort create materials for OpenStax Astronomy. See Wikiversity:Category:Openstax file/Astronomy --Guy vandegrift (talk) 15:14, 25 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I checked it out, looks good :) Hopefully it gets attention from people. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 18:58, 25 January 2018 (UTC)

Wiki Creator access request
I am now formally requesting/asking for wiki creator access. I understand that the sitename should not contain any dashes, wiki DB name should be the sitename then wiki all in one word and that custom sitenamed wikis should be made with a miraheze sitename first and sysadmins then take care of the rest. I also understand that I have access to ManageWiki where I can enter a DB name to change wiki settings on here. As far as I know all this should be used for is opening closed wikis if an adoption request is filed or if a bureaucrat needs help doing so. I also understand that I need to be concise in my reasons on there e.g. "Opening wiki per adoption request" instead of "Adoption request". I enclose my wikipedia user page as proof that I may be trusted/considered with these rights. Thank you in advance --Sau226 (talk) 11:19, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Dynamic image sizing - is this possible?
As the heading suggests, is this possible? I would like this for single images. As we know dynamic browsers and templates are really handy when window sizes are constantly changing depending on the size of monitor and device being used as well as using side by side applications etc. It would be really handy to have images dynamically change size based on browser size. If anyone knows of a way to do this I'd be interested to use it. Thanks. 15:09, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * There is no way in vanilla MediaWiki for the  syntax to specify a percentage of available width, though this is a common desire and someone may have written an extension.  However, JavaScript can change the dimensions of any element on the screen.   21:35 2-Feb-2018
 * I don't know what vanilla Mediawiki is but I am sure having dynamic image sizing is a common desire for many Mediawiki users. You'd think something like that would be built-in to the Mediawiki core but hey, what do I know? If I could write in Javascript the issue would most likely be solved, unfortunately for me the only thing I can do is dabble with css. 20:23, 3 February 2018 (UTC)

Suggestions for Miraheze
I had two ideas that could potentially improve Miraheze:

Suggestion #1: Use Patreon as a source of monthly income. Currently Miraheze only receives funding whenever someone makes a one-time donation, however Miraheze pays monthly costs, which are only increasing. Having people make monthly donations would offset the monthly costs, and people could be given rewards for supporting Miraheze. One possible reward for donating could be someone's name or the name of their wiki on a "donor board" depending on how much they donate to Miraheze per month.

Suggestion #2: Switch Miraheze's real-time chat system from IRC to Discord. IRC is more outdated and complicated to manage than Discord. Discord has features such as multiple chat channels, voice chatting, and a chat moderation system that makes Discord better than IRC. To connect to my first idea, you can also give Patreon donators "donor ranks" in the Discord chat to encourage more people to donate.

CoolieCoolster (talk) 23:29, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * No comment for idea one, but if we do create a Discord server, I don't think we'd just get rid of/stop using IRC. I had been thinking about creating a server (but it would require cleanup on my end). It would also mean that we'd have another service to keep an eye on, but whatever. -- Void  Whispers 23:39, 28 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I personally love discord and would love to make a server for miraheze but it requires account registration (even with no protection on the server) unlike ITS, which allows chatting without signup. Discord could be used but I'd still want to keep something that allows anonymous chat, or login with a miraheze global account. -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 01:12, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I also personally like Discord, but we won’t stop using IRC overnight (since all of ops stuff is done @ irc). And it’s not Free Software, which is another -1. &mdash; revi</tt>  08:23, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I love discord but I perfer IRC over discord for Miraheze. Patreon is not open source either. Zppix (Meta | CVT Member | talk to me) 15:17, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * No veo que sea más útil Discord que IRC. Desde que me registré, he estado utilizando el IRC y siempre que preguntado, me han ayudado. También en el IRC estoy en otros canales que no forman parte del IRC, en el caso de que se cambiarán a Discord. Yo no podría seguirlos debido a que Discord tiene algunas funcionalidades que violarían mi privacidad. Además también se deben tener en cuenta: (1) que no todos los usuarios quieren registrarse, (2) Discord podría ser incompatible con el navegador y la PC de algunos usuarios (3) Discord sería lento para algunos (4) Privacidad (5) Y el más importante, se tarda más en descargar instalar y registrarse en Discord que entrar en el IRC anonimamente y ser atendido. Wiki1776 (talk) 16:29, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not an IRC user, it's just a habit that I never got into. When I start up my computer Discord is like the first application I open to check messages and I would absolutely love a Miraheze discord server. I still believe we should keep IRC unless demand for that falls. My friends who I play PC games with have quit Teamspeak entirely and now use Discord exclusively. &#32; Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  18:06, 29 January 2018 (UTC)


 * I find it worth noting that although discord technically requires registration I found it quick and painless to join a server via discordapp.com by choosing an available name and doing nothing else. So we could allow anonymous chatting via browser. However to be eligible for discord partnership (maybe something we want?) I think we need email verification. Also even if we use discord we probably won't deprecate IRC (for a long time / ever). -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 17:37, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * First of all, I think this vote should be re-grouped for the two suggestions. The suggestions are pretty different, so I don't think getting people to either oppose both or support both is a good idea.

For Patreon, I personally wouldn't be opposed to setting it up, if anyone wants to send donations that way. As for Discord, it could perhaps be set up as complementary to IRC, but I would certainly be opposed to deprecating IRC, as it is easier to join, etc. and it is compatible with our feed services, and other IRC functions such as GitHub notifications and Icinga alerts. So, for both options presented I would be okay for them to be set up complementary to what we already have now, but certainly not replace anything. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 19:58, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * related -- Cheers, NDKilla ( Talk • Contribs ) 22:15, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The IRC will remain the best and simplest option for a user to request help, Discord could be something complementary or an additional option, but replacing the IRC is definitely not an option since users would take longer to register than to make a consult the Miraheze Staff. —<b style="color: #1406D0;">Alvaro Molina</b> (<b style="color: #137500;">✉</b> - ✔ ) 02:12, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

Votes (Discord in addition to IRC)

 * Sounds like a good idea. MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 22:57, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * as written, because the question as written portrays it as replacing IRC rather than adding to it. If amended as an addition to IRC, I'd abstain.  I am on IRC rarely, to report bugs or just to hang out; it is straightforward except for the Captcha.  I would pick an Admin and use talk pages or email rather than learn a new system or especially make disclosures to a stranger website.  (Was even skittish about using Phabricator.)   23:39 29-Jan-2018
 * The section title reads as "In addition to". &mdash; revi</tt>  01:50, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I added "in addition to IRC" after they voted due to the general consensus that Discord and IRC would be preferable to Discord alone. CoolieCoolster (talk) 10:31, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. However, I don't vote on the section heading, day's weather, or other context, but on the text submitted to a vote, as you would not want me fighting consensus by pointing out that the section heading said something different at some point in time.  If votes are taken seriously around here, the thing voted on must not be changed after votes are cast; for example, how do you know that the first voter agrees with this change?  If we learn something through the process of voting, it is fine with me to scratch the vote and start over with a better question.
 * However, in this case, there are problems even with the better question. You don't just endorse a new communication channel "in addition to IRC" without effectively deprecating IRC, as it is no longer possible to monitor IRC to find out what's going on (unless word comes over).  One ought not have to research the most popular forum in order to get the best real-time contact with other Mirahezians.
 * In addition, I object that my state compels me to do business with Adobe in order to read court decisions or obtain tax forms. No matter that it is "free."  Acrobat, nagging me to upgrade and making it look like it's coming from Windows, is essentially a virus.  And I would object if I had to subscribe to a third-party private service to communicate with y'all.  (Anything you can guarantee me about Discord, you cannot guarantee about a new owner if they sell the business.)  As I object to having to take at least two rounds of a megabyte-heavy test administered by Google in order to even get on IRC.   14:15 30-Jan-2018
 * I wasn't the one who started the vote, and it is clear that most people who commented believe that having IRC is necessary even if Discord is used. The discussion implied that using Discord would not replace IRC. I just added "in addition to IRC" to make that point clear to people who want to keep IRC. Perhaps MacFan4000 wants to change their vote now, however I assumed that keeping IRC wouldn't matter to people voting to add Discord as a mode of communication. CoolieCoolster (talk) 14:47, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
 * TBH, I don't really think this needs a vote (unless you wanted to depreciate IRC completely, which ain't gonna happen). Anyway, I'm rather inclined to make a server tonight. If I do, I'll drop the invite link off on a dedicated page or something. -- Void  Whispers 23:47, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * IRC won't be deprecated, for various reasons (We don't want to make a icinga to discord relay, sysadmin logger bot, etc, are we?) but having it just +1 is... I think we can try. &mdash; revi</tt>  01:50, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm not a fan of IRC and Discord would make my communication with the community far, far easier. &#32; Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  10:13, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * A discord as been created. (http://discord.is/miraheze). MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 17:22, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * As noted in Discord, we are operating our discord server in an experimental basis. If we decide not to use it, we may close the server at short notice. &mdash; revi</tt>  13:59, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Votes (Patreon)

 * MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 22:57, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Establishing another alternative for contributions is a good thing. I plan not to use it but to continue contributing, roughly annually, by smurfing someone to use PayPal on my behalf or even writing a check.  That expenses are monthly is not an issue; last I checked, Miraheze runs a surplus and can receive contributions annually/quarterly/sporadically and pay expenses monthly.  Acknowledgement on Finance is gentlemanly; I don't need to be in any Donor Hall of Fame, but if it works, go for it.  Failure of either of these proposals should not dissuade anyone from bringing refinements or new proposals forward.   23:39 29-Jan-2018
 * No reason why not, but it's really up to the man in control of finances. -- Void  Whispers 23:47, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * &#32; Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  10:12, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Problems with creating accounts
I was trying to create an alternate account for imports on the Harry Potter Wiki, and it wouldn't let me. An hour ago someone who was trying to join my wiki also said that they couldn't create an account. Here is what it says after I tried creating an account:

Sorry! This site is experiencing technical difficulties. Try waiting a few minutes and reloading. For more information on this error please check out our twitter page (Twitter.com/Miraheze) or contact the system administrators by connecting to #miraheze on irc.freenode.net

(Cannot access the database: Cannot access the database: Unknown database 'mistralcupwiki' (81.4.125.112))

You can try searching via Google in the meantime. Note that their indexes of our content may be out of date.

Search Harry Potter Wiki WWW

CoolieCoolster (talk) 13:10, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi is this still occuring? If so, could hop onto irc or discord if possible and I can talk to you there! Zppix (Meta | CVT Member | talk to me) 20:01, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
 * This was due to a wrong database move done yesterday, I have corrected it earlier today, so the error no longer exists. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 20:08, 4 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Alright. Thanks! CoolieCoolster (talk) 20:13, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

Templates library
How about Miraheze provides a library of templates for Miraheze wikis to make use of? --Rob Kam (talk) 08:37, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Thats a very good idea. I would be in full support of such a library being created &#32; Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  18:11, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * It could be forked from en.wikipedia. --Rob Kam (talk) 19:53, 29 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I presume there is still no need for separate Miraheze wikis to look similar or to use similar code. Typically, an author wants to do something, looks around for someone who has done the same thing, and steals the code.  Or asks here for help, as Borderman recently asked me for help at The Great War, though that initiative went nowhere.  The wider question is not better libraries of code but better ways to identify fellow Mirahezians who have solved a given problem.   23:47 29-Jan-2018

There is no need for Miraheze wikis to look similar, except that they already share the default look and feel of MediaWiki wikis. If it's important wikis can change this with style sheets. For full functionality MW wikis should ship with templates bundled in or there could be a central repository (like commons does for images) but there is no sign of this happening any time soon. Miraheze wiki admins either write their own templates or export them from elsewhere e.g. en. This must mean much duplication of effort. Templates are a headache to understand, install and maintain. Miraheze already makes life considerably easier for wiki admins, allowing them to focus on adding content instead of diverting time and energy to keeping up with the upgrade-debug race - template inclusion would enhance this. --Rob Kam (talk) 10:10, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
 * The infobox template should definitely be in this database. CoolieCoolster (talk) 14:48, 30 January 2018 (UTC)
 * I think Spike makes a good point. Stealing code is a harsh word but borrow would be more ideal. Anyway, I do believe problems may arise with a wikis Common.css and Common.js. These pages decide how templates are displayed and many templates can come out looking funny for people if they import them from a different wiki. That will have to be taken into account. &#32; Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  10:16, 31 January 2018 (UTC)

Over at Wikia they have implemented a "Templates Wiki" --Rob Kam (talk) 16:34, 31 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Requested at T2673. --Rob Kam (talk) 09:28, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Wiki requested by me. I am willing to let community members administer it/hand over reins if the community requests it --Sau226 (talk) 11:13, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. --Rob Kam (talk) 11:38, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

It's now at template.miraheze.org. Discussions about the template wiki can move to its talk page. --Rob Kam (talk) 15:45, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Oh, I was late. I had wanted to ask if they also thought about templates with the user's local language (in my case Spanish)? It is a very good proposal for the benefit of all. I ask only out of curiosity. Wiki1776 (talk) 17:35, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I've requested extension:translate to be enabled on template wiki. --Rob Kam (talk) 18:17, 1 February 2018 (UTC)

Where to discuss policy, etc. about the template wiki itself? Talk pages are more about the associated page. --Rob Kam (talk) 18:21, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * @Wiki1776 you'll have to guide us here, I know nothing about having a wiki multilingual. --Rob Kam (talk) 14:37, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Rob Kam in Template:Community noticeboard? or in Village pump? Wiki1776 (talk) 19:40, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Okay in Community noticeboard then. --Rob Kam (talk) 20:08, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Rob Kam (I had not seen your mention) hmm, my comment was if Template Wiki was going to have the Meta Translate (Custom_domains/es) or / and the templates would have names like Template:Icon, Template:Icon/es or Template:Icono (or better Plantilla:Icono in Spanish) I do not know if I make myself understood. There is a multilingual wiki that can serve as a guide Wiki1776 (talk) 00:05, 5 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I understand what you mean but I can't tell what the best solution might be. --Rob Kam (talk) 00:21, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Load times, previews and saves very hit and miss
Is anyone else experience issues with load times? For about the last week I have had multiple problems with page load times, previews and saves not working and periodically, nothing loading at all. This is getting somewhat difficult to work on my wiki at the moment as everything is taking so much longer. Am I an isolated case or has anyone else been experiencing similar issues? Currently none of my pages are loading; they're just stuck on a blank screens, yet I can post here on Meta. Can someone enlighten me as to the problem and if there will be a resolution soon? Many thanks. 11:51, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I blame most slowness on my own affection for Walmart-cobranded no-contract Internet service; but yes, in the last week, I have been staring at "Waiting for meta.miraheze.org" for up to ten seconds. No complete inability to load, though, and it seems all right just now.   13:14 11-Feb-2018
 * Yes here too, over a week now getting 504 Gateway Time-out. There ought to be something on @miraheze but there is no info there. --Rob Kam (talk) 13:22, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Rob Kam, Borbeman, Spike, a mi siempre me ha salido el 504 Gateway Time-out en todas las wikis que he creado. Nunca he podido saber el porqué, aparentemente es la conexión pero... Me funcionan otras páginas como Wikipedia, Wikia, y otros. Recuerdo que lo he comentado en el IRC pero no he recibido respuesta o han sido "vagas". Espero que se pueda solucionar para poder realizar mis proyectos sin problemas. Wiki1776 (talk) 14:28, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * It's good to know it's not just me but I'm sorry to hear others have experienced the same or similar problems. I know there have been no issues with my ISP to date as I have been streaming films and episodes on Netflix with no issues whatsoever, and other websites load properly and speedily. Just like  and, I also get 504s, but when pages just stops to load entirely (loads about ⅓ of the way then stops dead) this is really frustrating. The twitter feed / facebook page would certainly benefit users if they were updated more regularly even if to say they acknowledge they are aware of service issues and identify them if known. Having checked again, none of the pages I have just refreshed are loading at all, not a single one, and I had planned a fair bit of work for today. Staff are usually on the ball at sorting issues like this out but I hope it doesn't last another week.  15:37, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Update: Pages seem to be loading properly again at the moment. All those that previous froze have now refresh (some pages took well over an hour). If staff have fixed it, thanks. 17:14, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * PS — Sometimes, even after a page renders, the little dial keeps spinning (as Miraheze fishes for style and JavaScript to apply to it). Sometimes my browser gives up.   19:34 11-Feb-2018