Requests for Comment/Future of Wikicreators

There has been a bit of thought lately (mostly from me) that given the increase responsibility of wikicreators and that it's sort of changed from 100% technical role where trust was necessary to a role now that over time, the level of trust needed has decreased but the responsibilities have increased massively - it's time to redefine both the role and management of wikicreators.

For a bit of history and current knowledge:
 * wikicreators were made back when Special:CreateWiki was made to allow non-sysadmins to make wikis.
 * wikicreators were appointed on the sole discretion of a sysadmin, the community had no say in the appointment or even removal of the right.
 * With the introduction of ManageWiki, wikicreators naturally were given the ability to use the global interface on meta (being able to edit every Miraheze wiki).
 * The natural development of ManageWiki has lead to a lot more abilities being added, naturally giving wikicreators a lot of control of individual communities and the ability to do a form of consensus-management.

This RfC will be split into role statement, rights, appointment, removal, exceptions and then anything else others wish to add/clarify.

Proposal 1

 * Wiki creators are responsible for managing wiki requests and creating wikis.

a) Support

 * 1)  Pkbwcgs (talk) 19:56, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2)  Enfaru (talk) 19:58, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 3)  This should ALWAYS be the role of wiki creators &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  21:52, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 4)  Per CnocBride.   Malcolm Aces! Aces!  22:37, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 5)  It goes without saying that this is and should remain the core and primary function of wiki creators. &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg centrist16 | P mail.svg | Discord color D.svg  &#32; 00:04, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 6) --クールトレイン７７７ (cooltrain777) ( Userpage / Talk page ) 05:25, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 7) MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 17:58, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 8) I do support this area here. HawkAussie (talk) 23:50, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 9) Videojeux4 (talk) 18:38, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 10)  It’s actually in the name: Wiki creators. Therefore, they should create wikis. Amanda Catherine (talk) 23:27, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

d) Comments

 * 1) If limited to wiki creators, the role should be like this. However, since current wiki creators have the right to manage wiki, I would rather propose to split the user group/rights into two (just like the proposal I posted below).-- 09:12, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Proposal 2

 * Wiki creators are responsible for manage wiki requests, creating wikis and helping communities through the use ManageWiki subject to communities consensus and global/local policies.

b) Oppose

 * 1)  - If a Wikicreator wants to help a community out in a private capacity, I'm all for that, but I don't think they should be intervening. It's like asking a Policeman to do the job of a A&E Nurse, it's simply silly Enfaru (talk) 20:12, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2)  I would much prefer a separation of duties - a new role essentially. &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  21:52, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 3)  &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg centrist16 | P mail.svg | Discord color D.svg  &#32; 00:04, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 4)  Wiki creators should only be responsible to create Wikis and nothing else. Pkbwcgs (talk) 07:22, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 5)  --クールトレイン７７７ (cooltrain777) ( Userpage / Talk page ) 14:51, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 6) Per Above Videojeux4 (talk) 18:38, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 7)  Plain and simply, no. Wiki creators should not have access to anything sensitive, as they are not a “trusted” position so to speak (like stewards and sysadmins), and therefore if a wiki creator’s account were to be compromised, damage could be done. ManageWiki should never be a global thing IMHO (except for sysadmins during an emergency like TMH). Except under emergency circumstances, Special:ManageWiki on Meta should only manage Meta. Amanda Catherine (talk) 23:27, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Proposal 3

 * The Wiki creator rights/group will be split into two.
 * Wiki creator - follow the roll of proposal 1.
 * Wiki manager - allowed to manage wikis when requested.
 * Current wiki creators can choose to either work only as a wiki creator, or to work as both of them.
 * For the following requests after the RfC is closed, users should start from being a wiki creator, and then a wiki manager (if they wish).
 * So if you're both a wiki creator and a wiki manager, your role will be the same as proposal 2.

a) Support

 * 1) as the proposer.-- 09:08, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2)  Pkbwcgs (talk) 11:13, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 3)  This is what I would like. &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  12:01, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 4)  Weak support.--クールトレイン７７７ (cooltrain777) ( Userpage / Talk page ) 14:53, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 5)  It will be useful, most of the volunteers in Phabricator are also WikiCreators and with the current rights, they can enable or disable extensions or settings.  Wiki1776 (talk) 15:02, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 6) MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 17:58, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 7)  &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg centrist16 | P mail.svg | Discord color D.svg  &#32; 19:02, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 8) Videojeux4 (talk) 18:38, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

b) Oppose

 * 1)  In the current state, I'd oppose this, as "Wiki manager" is not clearly defined, and I also do not understand why a separate role to manage wikis is necessary, considering it can be done by wiki bureaucrats. Reception123  (talk) ('C' ) 18:02, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes but some users still don't enjoy doing that kind of stuff and would rather offload the work to someone else. I loved when feature requests when they were in there hay day. Yes, the system is far more efficient and I prefer that but I guess my support for this is just my thirst to help people on Miraheze and the wider community. &#32; Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  18:19, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * A wiki manager has the managewiki (but not managewiki-restricted) permission, and can manage wiki when necessary or requested by the local community; issues like this could happen anytime, and in such times, the right to manage wiki from Meta is very useful, because we can temporarily make the wikis accessible again, until the issue is fixed by a sysadmin (which could take even longer time than this time). In addition, some beginners might not know how to use managewiki and might ask for help (or set incorrect logo/favicon URL), and I'd like to help them.-- 18:39, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

c) Abstain

 * 1)  overall since I’m going to comment two different ways. I  keeping the wiki creator group intact following the scope outlined in proposal 1. However, I  the creation of a “wiki manager” group per my comments above. Unless “wiki manager” was to be a group of as high a level and requiring a level of trust as high as stewards and sysadmins, they should not be able to manage the settings/extensions/permissions/whatever of any wiki from Meta. Amanda Catherine (talk) 23:27, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Rights

 * This is a section where supporting/opposing individual local rights for the 'wikicreator' group will happen.

createwiki

 * The createwiki right allows users to create wiki using Special:CreateWiki.

a) Support

 * 1)  MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 19:53, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2)  Enfaru (talk) 20:00, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 3)  There's simply no reason to remove this.   Malcolm Aces! Aces!  22:37, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 4)  &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg centrist16 | P mail.svg | Discord color D.svg  &#32; 00:06, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 5) It's the original right of the wiki creators. If we don't have it, we will need a different name.-- 09:19, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 6) I think this should stay how it is. Pkbwcgs (talk) 11:15, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 7) Keep what makes Miraheze distinct from the other farms. Rajavlitra (talk) 14:35, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 8)  Ibidem Wiki1776 (talk) 15:04, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 9)  --クールトレイン７７７ (cooltrain777) ( Userpage / Talk page ) 00:57, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 10)  Reception123  (talk) ('C' ) 19:10, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 11) Wiki Creator without createwiki is not a Wiki Creator Videojeux4 (talk) 18:38, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 12)  Well, duh. Amanda Catherine (talk) 23:27, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

managewiki

 * The managewiki right allows users to access Special:ManageWiki and associated special pages, allowing them to change settings on all wikis (including metawiki) that are not deemed dangerous (restricted). This behaviour is similar to having access to Special:ManageWiki on every wiki at the bureaucrat level.

b) Oppose

 * 1)  I don't see the need of a managewiki right as stewards and wiki creators have access to Special:ManageWiki, there is no need for a managewiki right. If this is globally, I still don't think other users need to manage other's wikis. Therefore, I oppose this proposal. Pkbwcgs (talk) 19:51, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * By opposing this, you're agreeing to remove wikicreator's access to Special:ManageWiki. John (talk) 19:58, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * I think that's the general idea Enfaru (talk) 20:00, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, I don't think Wikicreators don't need access to Special:ManageWiki. Pkbwcgs (talk) 20:02, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 1)  Enfaru (talk) 20:00, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2)  I don't see why we were even granted these permissions in the first place.   Malcolm Aces! Aces!  22:37, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 3)  &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg centrist16 | P mail.svg | Discord color D.svg  &#32; 00:06, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 4)  , but conditional (Condition: only for the future wiki creators) Since current wiki creators are granted this right and is clearly noted on Wiki creators, I think current wiki creators are all trusted enough to be allowed to manage wikis when requested, and thus should be allowed to have the permission of wiki manager (which I posted above), if they agree.-- 09:24, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 5)  I do feel like that this could easily be implanted if a certain someone got the account that would have this right. HawkAussie (talk) 23:52, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 6)  --クールトレイン７７７ (cooltrain777) ( Userpage / Talk page ) 00:58, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 7)  A higher level of trust is required to be able to manage wikis, especially with the new settings being implemented. Reception123  (talk) ('C' ) 19:11, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 8)  Per Above Videojeux4 (talk) 18:38, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 9)  Per my comments on proposals above. Amanda Catherine (talk) 23:27, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

managewiki-restricted

 * The managewiki-restricted rights extends the right above allowing the user to edit all settings including ones deemed by sysadmins to be either dangerous or requiring extra work. This is the level above local wiki bureaucrats and requires a level of trust to have.

b) Oppose

 * 1)  I don’t see a need for wiki creators to have this right MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 19:54, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2)  I concur with  MacFan4000 Enfaru (talk) 20:02, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 3)  This must be given to Miraheze staff or extremely well trusted users. &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  21:53, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 4)   Absolutely not. There is a enormous amount of damage that could be done with these - Miraheze staff should be the only ones who have these permissions. What if a wikicreator's account was hacked and they abused the tools?   Malcolm Aces! Aces!  22:37, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 5)  &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg centrist16 | P mail.svg | Discord color D.svg  &#32; 00:06, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 6)  Managewiki-restricted should only be for very trusted users, and I don't see any advantage of wikicreators having them. Reception123  (talk) ('C' ) 08:15, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 7) We currently don't have this right (according to this), and I guess it should be limited to Stewards and Sysadmins, or users as trusted as them.-- 09:28, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 8)  This is a terrible idea. Wiki creators certainly don't need to edit all the settings. It is dangerous. Pkbwcgs (talk) 11:10, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 9)  --クールトレイン７７７ (cooltrain777) ( Userpage / Talk page ) 01:00, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 10) Wiki Creator don't need this because some think need to be done by SysAdmin and can break the wiki if badly used Videojeux4 (talk) 18:38, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 11)  - or, let’s make that completely and vehemently strong oppose. I strongly oppose wiki creators having access to ManageWiki on any wiki except Meta. This is just taking it way too far. Amanda Catherine (talk) 23:27, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Discretion of sysadmins

 * This is the current status quo, and if all proposals fail this will be the outcome regardless of this sections approval.

Sysadmins will have the sole discretion to give wikicreator to any user they deem fit enough or trusted to carry out the role. Stewards will grant the rights as requested by a sysadmin.

a) Support

 * 1)  - Honest I see no real need for a change I think Wikicreators should remain at the sole discretion of the SysAdmin. But if they want to nominate trusted people on their behalf to deal with an increased work load, I'd support that as well Enfaru (talk) 20:04, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2)  &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  21:54, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 3)  There's no real reason to change this.   Malcolm Aces! Aces!  22:37, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 4)  The status quo is fine as it is. &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg centrist16 | P mail.svg | Discord color D.svg  &#32; 00:06, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 5)  Pkbwcgs (talk) 07:17, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 6) MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 17:58, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

b) Oppose

 * 1) I don't really comment on RfCs unless I have strong views, and this is one of these case. I am strongly of the opinion that Miraheze is, by design, a community ran project and a community ran effort. I don't like the idea that we are unnecessarily holding back access that realistically only affects the community. I see no reason why these rights can't be launched into community purview and let the community decide how their whole network of wikis and smaller community both grow and come into existence. There is no valid reason whatsoever for sysadmins to have sole control of the wikicreator right. All we do by holding this back is giving us the chance to make choices we don't really want to make, and one where I always grant because I don't feel like that I, as a sysadmin, should have this choice to make. John (talk) 22:55, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Also to clarify further practise, sysadmins stamp. Stewards solely are responsible for granting - so this is just changing who gets the say rather than a whole process. Putting it in line too as stewards aren't meant to answer to sysadmins but the community with changes and so. John (talk) 23:04, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 1) I think it used to be useful in the past, but since we have almost 20 of them, it's a better idea to have a community discussion before granting the permission.-- 09:41, 31 August 2018 (UTC).
 * 2)  Per 開拓者.--<span style="font-style: italic; color:white;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#0E046D;font-size:100%;">クールトレイン７７７ (cooltrain777) <span style="font-style: italic; color:black;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#ddf;font-size:90%;">( Userpage / Talk page ) 01:03, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

c) Abstain

 * 1)  IMHO it’s fine the way it is, but having non-sysadmins and non-stewards able to grant the right would be a plus. Amanda Catherine (talk) 23:27, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Proposal 1

 * A user requests the right at Requests for permissions. A request will last a minimum of 7 days. The closing steward will weigh up the comments and decide whether to grant the rights or not (no minimum support percentage, comments count not votes).

b) Oppose

 * 1)  Seven days is too long to wait for this right. Pkbwcgs (talk) 19:37, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2)  Per Pkbwcgs. Amanda Catherine (talk) 23:27, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Proposal 2

 * A user requests the right at Requests for permissions. A request will last a minimum of 7 days. The close steward will weigh up the comments and decide whether to grant the rights or not (ideally there should be around 70% support).

b) Oppose

 * 1)  Seven days is too long to wait and 70% consensus is too much of an expectation. Pkbwcgs (talk) 19:40, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2)  Per Pkbwcgs. Amanda Catherine (talk) 23:27, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Proposal 3

 * A user requests the right at Requests for permissions. A request will last a minimum of 7 days. The close steward will weigh up the comments and decide whether to grant the rights or not (ideally there should be around 80% support).

b) Oppose

 * 1)  Seven days is too long to wait and 80% consensus is too much of an expectation. Pkbwcgs (talk) 19:38, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2)  Per Pkbwcgs. Amanda Catherine (talk) 23:27, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Proposal 4

 * A user requests the right at Requests for permissions. A request will a minimum of 3 days. The closing steward will weigh up the comments and decide whether to grant the rights or not (no minimum support percentage, comments count not votes).

a) Support

 * 1) as my community choice. Small number of days and with no requirements either way, we can balance community involvement against community view. John (talk) 22:58, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2) &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg centrist16 | P mail.svg | Discord color D.svg  &#32; 00:08, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 3) Since we have enough wiki creators (nearly 20 of them), I think we can have a more democratic way of decision.-- 09:38, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 4) my opinion is that the Community should decide who can have the permission of WikiCreator and not just one person.  Wiki1776 (talk) 15:06, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 5)  --<span style="font-style: italic; color:white;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#0E046D;font-size:100%;">クールトレイン７７７ (cooltrain777) <span style="font-style: italic; color:black;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#ddf;font-size:90%;">( Userpage / Talk page ) 01:07, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 6)  Per John's point, however the condition for my support vote is that wiki creators do not have the managewiki and/or managewiki-restricted right. Reception123  (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 19:10, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 7) Videojeux4 (talk) 18:38, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * , although assuming that wiki creators do not have ManageWiki or ManageWiki-restricted access (per Reception123). Amanda Catherine (talk) 23:27, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

b) Oppose

 * 1)  Three days is too long to wait and I don't think Wiki creator rights need community consensus like other rights. Pkbwcgs (talk) 19:31, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Proposal 5

 * A user requests the right at Requests for permissions. A request will last a minimum of 3 days. The close steward will weigh up the comments and decide whether to grant the rights or not (ideally there should be around 70% support).

b) Oppose

 * 1)  Three days is too long to wait and 70% consensus is too much of an expectation.

Proposal 6

 * A user requests the right at Requests for permissions. A request will last a minimum of 3 days. The close steward will weigh up the comments and decide whether to grant the rights or not (ideally there should be around 80% support).

b) Oppose

 * 1)  I think that it should be up to a steward to decide who gets the wiki creator right and I don't believe that we should have community consensus for such rights. Secondly, 80% support is too much of an expectation. Pkbwcgs (talk) 19:35, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Removal

 * The sysadmin, steward + community clause can all pass and form three ways to be removed outside of inactivity.

Sysadmin discretion

 * Sysadmins, being the solely responsible for the technical and smooth running of Miraheze, may request a steward remove a wikicreator's rights if in their opinion: that user has either caused damaged, has the potential to cause damage, is creating unnecessary workload for sysadmins directly related to their access being granted by wikicreator.

a) Support

 * 1)  Enfaru (talk) 20:05, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2)  Technical reasons should allow a sysadmin to be able to solely request removal. Reception123  (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 08:13, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 3) -- 10:22, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 4)  Wiki1776 (talk) 15:07, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 5) MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 17:58, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 6)  &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg centrist16 | P mail.svg | Discord color D.svg  &#32; 19:08, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 7)  Certainly. Pkbwcgs (talk) 19:29, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 8)  --<span style="font-style: italic; color:white;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#0E046D;font-size:100%;">クールトレイン７７７ (cooltrain777) <span style="font-style: italic; color:black;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#ddf;font-size:90%;">( Userpage / Talk page ) 01:07, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 9) Videojeux4 (talk) 18:38, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

b) Oppose

 * 1)  I’ll be alone here. I’m opposing for two main reasons. One, I don’t like how this proposal is worded. In my opinion, nobody should be taking a sensitive and serious action like revoking any permissions preemptively. Revoking permissions is something that IMHO should only be done as a reactive action, not a proactive action. I don’t think that any rights should be removed from any user unless they have caused disruption (key being in the past tense) or have otherwise blatantly abused the right (also key being in the past tense). The other reason I am opposing this proposal is that “sysadmin discretion” is too vague and not a valid reason for any sensitive or serious action. A clear-cut, 100% defendable and backed up, and preferably consensus-driven reason should be given for any actions that are at the level of or above revoking permissions. Amanda Catherine (talk) 23:27, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Steward discretion

 * Stewards, being responsible for ensuring community consensus is enforced and the communities views are respected, may remove a wikicreators rights if a user is repeatedly violating policies related to wiki creation (Content Policy) or is using their managewiki rights (if granted above) in contravention to expected standards or local wiki policies.

a) Support

 * 1)  Absolutely. Pkbwcgs (talk) 20:04, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2)  As people who represent the community, stewards should also have a say in removing wiki creators. Reception123  (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 08:13, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 3) -- 10:23, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 4)  Wiki1776 (talk) 15:07, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 5)  &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg centrist16 | P mail.svg | Discord color D.svg  &#32; 19:08, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 6)  <span style="font-style: italic; color:white;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#0E046D;font-size:100%;">クールトレイン７７７ (cooltrain777) <span style="font-style: italic; color:black;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#ddf;font-size:90%;">( Userpage / Talk page ) 01:08, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 7) Videojeux4 (talk) 18:38, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 8)  I think that stewards can remove the rights if the user in question has blatantly and repeatedly violated the content policy by creating inappropriate wikis (keywords being blatantly and repeatedly, as well as the word “has” in the past tense). However, like the above proposal, I think that “steward discretion” is too vague of a reason for an action like this. Amanda Catherine (talk) 23:27, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

b) Oppose

 * 1) - What other people think is of no concern. Wikicreators have no impact on their interactions with Miraheze. If there's a public outcry, then the Sysadmin may have to take note to avoid damaging the reputation of Miraheze, but that is all. Enfaru (talk) 20:06, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Wiki creators are the first people users will interact with and usually the one they’ll ask for help. Wiki creators absolutely have an impact and users may decide not to continuing using Miraheze is the person who gave them a wiki is rude etc. John (talk) 20:14, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * A valid point, but in my view Wikicreators should not be attaching identifiable details, instead they should sign off with "Miraheze Support", which would link back to those that are public facing. Enfaru (talk) 21:41, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Community consensus 1

 * Any member of the community may open a request for the removal of a users rights and if neither of the above two clauses apply, the users rights will be removed if the discussion reaches 50% in favour of removal within a reasonable time period.

b) Oppose

 * 1)  50% consensus is not strong enough for the removal of a user's rights. Pkbwcgs (talk) 20:05, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2)  While I always like the idea of the community being able to vote for most things, I don't see any reason to remove a wikicreator except in case of mishandling the permissions, which would likely be a fast removal by a steward or sysadmin. So, I'm not sure what reasons the community could have to request a removal. Reception123  (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 08:13, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 3)  Community consensus can be easily be taken over by LTAs, as everyone has the right to vote. I know that some of the LTAs' aim is to have the higher permission of the target user revoked by causing them to make mistakes/misjudges, and they might try to control the community. Also, I think a sysadmin or a steward can remove the right if they think there were abuse/misuse of the permission.-- 10:34, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 4)  &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg centrist16 | P mail.svg | Discord color D.svg  &#32; 19:08, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 5)  --<span style="font-style: italic; color:white;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#0E046D;font-size:100%;">クールトレイン７７７ (cooltrain777) <span style="font-style: italic; color:black;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#ddf;font-size:90%;">( Userpage / Talk page ) 01:09, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 6)  50% is not enough of a consensus for an action with the level of removing permissions. Amanda Catherine (talk) 23:27, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Community consensus 2

 * Any member of the community may open a request for the removal of a users rights and if neither of the above two clauses apply, the users rights will be removed if the discussion reaches 70% in favour of removal within a reasonable time period.

a) Support

 * 1)  70% is a reasonable and fair amount of consensus to judge the removal of a user's rights. Pkbwcgs (talk) 20:06, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

b) Oppose

 * 1)  - It really doesn't matter how many users disagree. Ultimately, this is should not be their decision, this shouldn't be a popularity contest. There's no need for it to be a popularity contest either Enfaru (talk) 20:11, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2)  Per above, and my comment on "Community consensus 1". Reception123  (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 08:13, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 3)  Per my comment above.-- 10:35, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 4)  &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg centrist16 | P mail.svg | Discord color D.svg  &#32; 19:08, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 5)  <span style="font-style: italic; color:white;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#0E046D;font-size:100%;">クールトレイン７７７ (cooltrain777) <span style="font-style: italic; color:black;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#ddf;font-size:90%;">( Userpage / Talk page ) 01:09, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

c) Abstain

 * 1)  Frankly, I’d prefer to see ~80%+ consensus for any rights are removed from any account (with the exception of insignificant rights like autopatrolled and confirmed). Removing rights is a serious business, and therefore a unanimous or a near unanimous consensus should be reached. However, this RFC is too long already and therefore I’m not going to add this as a separate proposal, and therefore I’d be willing to live with a 70% consensus guideline. Amanda Catherine (talk) 23:27, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Inactivity 1

 * A user may have their rights removed if they do not contribute to the global community in any form within the last 3 months.

a) Support

 * 1) it's a role with a high turn around to be honest. The workload is low too. John (talk) 22:59, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2)  Per John, 3 months is a lot of time to be inactive as a wikicreator. Reception123  (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 08:13, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 3) As it says "in any form," it seems reasonable to me.-- 10:25, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 4)  Ibidem Wiki1776 (talk) 15:09, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 5) Videojeux4 (talk) 18:38, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

b) Oppose

 * 1)  I feel one year is reasonable enough for the removal of rights globally for inactivity. Pkbwcgs (talk) 20:09, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * What is the point of that long wait? Why keep wiki creators who don't actively create wikis? If someone isn't active for 3 months, why should they still keep this right? Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 10:43, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 1)  &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg centrist16 | P mail.svg | Discord color D.svg  &#32; 19:08, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * It would be nice to have an explanation, as RfCs are not based on "votes" per se, but on comments. Reception123 (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 10:43, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 1)  --<span style="font-style: italic; color:white;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#0E046D;font-size:100%;">クールトレイン７７７ (cooltrain777) <span style="font-style: italic; color:black;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#ddf;font-size:90%;">( Userpage / Talk page ) 01:26, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Inactivity 2

 * A user may have their rights removed if they do not contribute to the global community in any form within the last 6 months.

b) Oppose

 * 1)  6 months is way too much, a wikicreator must be active, as, as John says, the workload is low. Reception123  (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 08:13, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2)  &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg centrist16 | P mail.svg | Discord color D.svg  &#32; 19:08, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 3)  I still think one year of inactivity is good enough to remove rights, six months is not enough. Pkbwcgs (talk) 19:24, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 4)  --<span style="font-style: italic; color:white;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#0E046D;font-size:100%;">クールトレイン７７７ (cooltrain777) <span style="font-style: italic; color:black;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#ddf;font-size:90%;">( Userpage / Talk page ) 01:26, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Sysadmins avoid appointment clause

 * Any user who is made a sysadmin by internal procedure, will be able to be given the wikicreator rights regardless of the appointment clause that is passed.

a) Support

 * 1) - Enfaru (talk) 20:07, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2)  Sysadmins should have these tools for technical reasons. Reception123  (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 08:17, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 3) -- 09:48, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 4)  Pkbwcgs (talk) 11:04, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 5)  Wiki1776 (talk) 15:10, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 6) MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 17:58, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 7)  &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg centrist16 | P mail.svg | Discord color D.svg  &#32; 19:03, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 8)  <span style="font-style: italic; color:white;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#0E046D;font-size:100%;">クールトレイン７７７ (cooltrain777) <span style="font-style: italic; color:black;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#ddf;font-size:90%;">( Userpage / Talk page ) 01:29, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 9) Videojeux4 (talk) 18:38, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 10) &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg CnocBride | Talk | Contribs  17:11, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

b) Oppose

 * 1)  I don’t really like “exceptions” to things like this except under emergency circumstances. However, considering that sysadmins can already delete and rename wikis, I would think that they could also create wikis from the database/server without using Special:CreateWiki. While this obviously should not be done unless absolutely necessary, given the fact that sysadmins would have the ability to create wikis means that they could also function as a wiki creator in order to keep and uphold process. That being said, I would still prefer to see a separate discussion held. Amanda Catherine (talk) 23:27, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Sysadmins avoid inactivity clause

 * Any user who is made a sysadmin by internal procedure, will be exempt from meeting the activity requirements passed above.

a) Support

 * 1)  - Yes and no. I think that the senior SysAdmin should be able to judge whether someones account may be at risk of hacking if it hasn't been used in some time, but otherwise I think they should be generally exempt from this nonsense. Enfaru (talk) 20:09, 30 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 2)  Wikis need to be created for technical reasons sometimes, and I see no reason to have to re-request wikicreator if not using it. Reception123  (talk) (<font color="#FF0000">'C' ) 08:13, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 3) -- 09:48, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 4)  Wiki1776 (talk) 15:10, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 5) MacFan4000 (Talk Contribs) 17:58, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 6)  &#32;  Miraheze Logo.svg centrist16 | P mail.svg | Discord color D.svg  &#32; 19:03, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 7)  Pkbwcgs (talk) 19:26, 31 August 2018 (UTC)
 * 8)  <span style="font-style: italic; color:white;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#0E046D;font-size:100%;">クールトレイン７７７ (cooltrain777) <span style="font-style: italic; color:black;font-family:'Times New Roman';background-color:#ddf;font-size:90%;">( Userpage / Talk page ) 01:29, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
 * 9) Videojeux4 (talk) 18:38, 4 September 2018 (UTC)

b) Oppose

 * 1)  If the user is inactive as a sysadmin, they are also inactive as a wiki creator. If they are inactive as a wiki creator, they are also inactive as a sysadmin. Either someone is active or they are not. Additionally, again, I don’t like “exceptions” to things, and this one in particular has the tone of giving sysadmins some “supreme power” so to speak by making them exempt from guidelines that everyone else has to follow, and I absolutely do not want to see that. Amanda Catherine (talk) 23:27, 8 September 2018 (UTC)